Sunday, December 21, 2014

JESUS AND THE WORD

This post was originally posted on 
"The Gospel of the Kingdom of God"
Everyone is so thankful to William Tyndale for giving us our first English translation of the Bible based upon the Hebrew and Greek text.  His New Testament was published in 1526 and revised to its final state in 1534.
However, William Tyndale would probably be considered a heretic for translating John 1:3-4 as,
“All things were made by it, and without it, was made nothing that was made. In it was life, and the life was the light of men.
Tyndale used “it” rather than “him.”  From what I understand, “It” is a translation of the Greek “autou” meaning “he, she, or it.”  Since Tyndale did not read Jesus the Messiah into the “logos” or “word,” it shows he was not influenced by the Latin Vulgate of Wycliffe.
Since Jesus the Messiah is called “The Word of God” in Rev.19:13, the translators of the KJV assumed the “Word” of John 1:1 was also Jesus the Messiah and so capitalized the word “word” and used the pronoun “him”in reference to the “word.” The Greek for “word” is “logos.”  Logos means “the spoken word” or “something said (including the thought).” In that sense the word is an “it,” not a person but a thing.  William Tyndale renders it that way  as does the Matthew’s Bible of 1537, the Great Bible of 1539,the Geneva Bible of 1560, and the Bishop’s Bible of 1568.  Verse 3 should read,
“All things were made through it; and without it was not anything made that was made.”
In other words, God (Yahweh) spoke creation into existence.
The Roman Catholic version of the New Testament was completed in 1582, a result of a battle between the Papists and Protestants and they chose the previous versions based on the Vulgate by using “him” instead of “it.”  From then on all other Bibles, beginning with the King James of 1611 used “him” instead of “it” in their translating of John 1:3-4.  This helped to enforce the pagan idea of a preexisting being and to continue fostering the false teaching of the Trinity.  So whenever the text is read, people read it as:
“In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God.”
That is not what the Scripture says.  The “logos” (word) means “the spoken word,” and thus is referred to as “it.”  “It” had nothing to do with a pre-existing being.  “It” was not a person, but a thing (logos).  God (Yahweh) alone is the creator of the universe.  He spoke and it came into existence.  God spoke, and it was done.
By the word of Yahweh were the heavens made; and all the host by the breath of his mouth. . . For He spoke and it was; He commanded, and it stood fast.   Ps. 33:6,9
Not only did God the Father speak creation into existence, He also spoke His Son, the promised Messiah, into existence.  Jesus had a “genesis,” a “beginning.”  Matthew and Luke tell us about the ‘begetting’ or ‘genesis’ of Jesus, when and how it happened (Matt. 1:1: genesis; 1:18: genesis; 1:20: begetting in Mary).  If Jesus actually preexisted, then he did not really begin to exist as the Bible tells us.
To say that Jesus the Messiah has two natures is pure paganism. We must wake up from this pagan induced delusion and realize that:
JESUS THE MESSIAH WAS NOT TRANSFERRED – HE WAS BEGOTTEN
To say there was a supposed transferring of an already existing person goes way beyond the description of the origin of Jesus as recorded by Luke and Matthew or any parts of Scripture.
Nowhere do the Scriptures speak of any transfer of a life form into Mary’s womb. We are told in Matthew 1:20 which says “that which was begotten (generated) in her.”
To generate something means to bring it into existence.
Paul warned that people would wonder off into myths, and that some will come preaching another Jesus.
For the time is coming when people will not put up with sound doctrine, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own desires, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander away to myths.  2 Tim. 4:3-4
For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you submit to it readily enough.” 2 Cor. 11:4
None of the earliest Christians taught or believed that Jesus was a pre-existent being.
The first step towards the Trinity did not begin until the Second Century when some Christians accepted the concept of an eternal pre-existence as taught by Origin later in the second century and became full-blown Trinity in 481 and onward to our day.
The following is a very short explanation of John 1:1,14 by Sean Finnegan:
John 1.1, 14
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God… And the word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
The first and most important thing to realize is that “the word” is God’s word and not Jesus. The word does not become Jesus until John 1.14. The word of God is never in any one of the 42 books of the Bible preceding this verse referred to as a person distinct from the Father. The word is God’s utterance, his plan, his creative power, or his message given to the prophets. John 1.1 begins with the same words as Genesis 1.1. In the Genesis account God speaks and creation happens; in John it says the word was in the beginning with God (see also Psalm 33.6, 9).
God’s word was with him. This expression may sound strange to us, but it is found in other verses as well where something is “with” them but it is really “within” them (Job 10.13; 23.13-14; Proverbs 8.22, 30). In fact, the word “with” in John 1.1 is the word pros, which most often translated “to” or “toward.” So the word was toward God or with God or within God—it was close to his heart.
The last part of John 1.1 reads, “and the word was God.” The word belongs to the sphere of God; because he is divine, his word is divine. It is not a separate being from God any more than my word is a distinct being from me, yet in a metaphoric sense my word is me because it expresses who I am.
Finally in John 1.14 the word of God, his plan for salvation, his will for humanity, his ultimate revealed purpose, becomes a living breathing human being in Jesus of Nazareth. How did this happen? The holy spirit overshadowed the virgin Mary which resulted in a totally unique pregnancy. God’s plan to save the world became flesh. In fact, throughout the Gospel of John, Jesus makes it clear that he spoke the words of God and did the works of God (John 8.28; 12.49-50)
________________________
Therefore, it is correct to say,
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.  All things were made by IT; and without IT was not any thing made that was made.  In IT was life; and the life was the light of men.
Again, this is the reading in Tyndale 1525, Tyndale 1534, Matthew’s Bible 1537, The Great Bible 1539, The Geneva Bible 1560, the Bishop’s Bible (1568).  They all had  the word “it”.
All things were made by IT.   The word (logos) is an it and not a him.  A word is not a person.  Jesus the Messiah was in the (purpose/mind/motive/plan) of God before God (Yahweh) created the universe alone (Isaiah 44:24; Mark 10:6).  The word (logos)  does not become Jesus the Messiah until John 1:14.

36 comments:

  1. I have just read this post Thomas and for me this part stands out:-

    'Finally in John 1.14 the word of God, his plan for salvation, his will for humanity, his ultimate revealed purpose, becomes a living breathing human being in Jesus of Nazareth. How did this happen? The holy spirit overshadowed the virgin Mary which resulted in a totally unique pregnancy. God’s plan to save the world became flesh. In fact, throughout the Gospel of John, Jesus makes it clear that he spoke the words of God and did the works of God (John 8.28; 12.49-50)'

    I believe the name 'Jesus' means 'Yahweh saves'.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's my favorite paragraph Brenda!

      Delete
  2. Brother Thomas, you know just as much as I do; an 'IT' can NOT make anything, an 'IT' can NOT create.
    Only a PERSON can make things or create things.
    Have you ever heard of an 'IT' paint a painting, or an 'IT' writing a poem?
    No my brother! I suggest that you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    In the beginning GOD! I can assure you that 'HE' (God) is a person and not an 'it'.
    Now the question is, who is that God?

    I claim that Jesus Christ is the God of the entire Bible and His creation and beside Him there is NO other (Isa.45:22).
    If you say that Yahweh, or Jehovah or Allah or Krishna or whoever else is the creator of heaven and earth, then you will die in your sins (John 8:24).
    It is important for you to make every effort so that you believe ONLY in the Lord Jesus Christ and in no other.
    If anyone including me or an angel from heaven or a bible translator or whoever else preaches another 'Jesus', contrary to what I preach or we (the Bible) let them be eternally condemned (2Cor. 11:4 +Gal. 1:6-9).

    Look Thomas, its not complicated, the Lord Jesus made it easy for us, and we don't need to be 'Einstein', nuclear physicists or Bible scholars, simply, if we believe in the Lord Jesus we will be saved, if we believe in someone else we will perish.

    The Bible is the written word of the Lord Jesus and He said, that everything was made by Him, through Him and for Him and nothing came into being apart from Him, whether things in heaven or on earth or under the earth, whether powers or principalities or domains, everything was made by Jesus Christ alone and He had no helper to tell Him what to do (Jon1:1-6 + 1Cor.8:6 +col. 1:16).
    Some Christians believe that Jesus couldn't have done anything unless someone else told Him what to do (John 5:19).
    Ironic, isn't it?
    What annoys me is, that we don't have any preachers who tell them the truth.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Paul, Please reread the post. IT stands for the Word of God. Not Jesus.

      I agree that it is not complicated, IT stands for the Word of God.

      Delete
  3. No Brenda, 'Jesus' doesn't mean Yahweh saves.
    You should not believe those wild cooked up non-biblical statements.

    Jesus is the 'Name' of the ONLY God there is.
    The ONLY God of the Bible never had another Name, other than 'JESUS'. Jesus is God's one and ONLY Name!
    Also , Jesus spoke the word of God and did the works of God, because He is the God of His Word the Bible, and of His works the creation.
    Or do you think that Jesus spoke the word of another entity called God?
    And did the works of someone else, perhaps called Yahweh?

    No Brenda, you need to give all the glory to Jesus Christ and not to this unknown 'God'.
    You see, if you preach an unclear message, then you have failed to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and your preaching is useless, or worse, you are leading the hearers away from Jesus Christ our Lord to another identity whom you call God.
    And it is equally bad to put Jesus into the middle and proclaim Him a god among other gods.
    Either Jesus is the Lord God or no god at all.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Yes that is right Paul, as you state in your comment to Thomas about believing in Jesus and being saved, as it says in Acts ch. 16 v. 31 but Jesus Himself said in Matthew ch. 4 v. 4 that man shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. We were dead in our sins and now we live through the word of God.

    Acts ch. 2 v. 36 states:- 'Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.'

    There are many names that God is called as far as people are concerned according to which language they speak, and that is why I love where God said to Moses 'I AM WHO I AM'. Some translations say 'I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE'. However, what it reveals to me is that God can reach all of mankind in order to reconcile us back to Him in a way that would not be possible for human beings to do, and yet He uses human beings in the process once they are born of His Spirit.

    I have to say, as I have said before, that the word of God is a living word, a vocabulary and not a man made doctrine. That word became flesh, coming in the' appearance' (that part had to be crucified) of sinful man, yet not having any sin in Him, being called 'Jesus' in the English language, other names according to other languages, the One mediator between man and God, the bread of the face. I could go on for ever sharing what I have learned and am still learning but it all has to line up with scripture. Just like learning a new language, learning from the word of God is 'line upon line, precept upon precept'.

    Colossians ch. 1 vs. 15-18 read:- 'He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the pre-eminence'.

    The 'head and body of the church' are the new, spiritual Adam, born again mankind, all at One with God in spirit, which has been growing to fullness over the past two thousand years or so, which I believe is not perfected yet. (according to the 'Behold, I cast out demons and do cures today and tomorrow and on the third day I shall be perfected.' looked at from the perspective of 'with the Lord one day is as a thousand years'.

    God is not an unknown God Paul, I have come to know Him, and am still coming to know Him, through what Jesus has done.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Thomas, we should not separate the Word of God from Jesus.
    Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1). In other words, it is Jesus who is the written Word became flesh, or, what is written in the Bible was manifested in flesh Jesus Christ our Lord, (Veiled in flesh the Godhead see; Hail the incarnate Deity).
    Wow brother, I can see the majesty of our Lord just in that statement alone.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Brenda, the difference between you and me is, that you separate God from the Lord Jesus Christ.
    I preach, teach and explain that this 'God' of the Bible is the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Because of this great error you are making, you leave the door open for other gods, spirits or entities to enter, even this unknown god called father.
    Yes there are many Scripture verses who seemingly support such ideas, but the Spirit of the Lord does not support those ideas, for He has been given to magnify Jesus Christ alone.

    You said, 'We were dead in our sins and now we live through the word of God.'
    That is true, but it is an open-ended statement, what does it mean?

    You said, 'Acts ch. 2 v. 36 states:- 'Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.'
    That is also true, but what does it men?
    Does that mean, that the real God made an other god, both Lord and Christ? Or what?
    Brenda, you need to explain that statement so that we can have confidence in Jesus Christ, otherwise we have to look for another.

    Also, the Lord Jesus did NOT give His Name to Moses, even though Moses wrote about the Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:46), but he didn't know His Name. 'I Am' is not a Name.
    Previously I have said, that the Name of the Lord was NOT given in the Old Testament. The first time the Lord made His Name known was in Luke 1:31, 'and you shall give Him the Name JESUS'!

    Brenda, once you believe that Jesus is the Christ, then many Bible doctrines will become revelation to you.

    (Col. 1:15-18).Here we have the same problem again.
    Do you believe that Jesus is the image of God? Meaning the image of Himself (Jesus)?
    What about Adam, is he also the image of the invisible God (Jesus)?

    I believe that the second Adam (Jesus) is just like the first Adam, with the difference that Jesus was born through a woman and Adam was created out of earth (dust) by the Lord Jesus. Otherwise Col. 1:15 to 18 makes no sense.

    If God is not unknown, then please give me His Name?

    ReplyDelete
  7. The Father is not unknown Paul, He is the Father that no man can come to except through Jesus:-
    'Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.' (John ch. 14 v. 6), of whom Jesus (the word) is the express image. (as scripture declares, not me Paul) 'He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Hebrews ch. 1 v. 3,) , and if it says that Jesus was the first born of all creation, then 'creation' began when He was born (which takes me back to the sixth day (six thousand years ) theory

    Jesus is the door to the sheep 'So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. (John ch. 10 v. 7) , the only open door I am interested in.

    Where you ask many times what a scripture means, I would say it means exactly what it says Paul, 2 Corinthians ch. 11 vs 3 and 4 answers perfectly.

    'But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!'

    There is a simplicity in Christ (the word ), the one spoken of in scripture, and we are warned not to listen to someone who comes and preaches another Jesus or a different gospel.

    As we mature in that word we come to discern the spirits Paul.

    ' But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
    (1 Corinthians ch. 2 vs 10 - 16).

    ReplyDelete
  8. Brenda, you already have been corrupted from the simplicity that is in Jesus Christ.
    For this reason I'm talking to you, so that you would turn away from that unknown god you believe in, which obviously is a god other than the Lord Jesus.
    Again, for that reason all your other teachings have been polluted by this 'multiple god person doctrine', also called the Trinity.

    OK, I will state the true doctrine of the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    'There is only ONE person who is the true and only God, and that is Jesus Christ our Lord, and beside Jesus there is NO OTHER person, entity or spirit who is God.'
    You see Brenda, that is the simplicity, that God is (in) Jesus, reconciling the world to Himself.

    It is most important that you are honest with yourself, otherwise you are deceiving yourself.
    Lets take some from the previous post comments over here.
    This is what you believe.
    You said, 'Also, in Genesis ch. 1 it states 'Let us make man in our image', the 'man' there being plural, done on the sixth day. I believe it is God and His Son Jesus making sinful mankind in the spiritual image of God (the church being the body and Jesus being the head, all one with God) on the sixth day (six thousand years after the first Adam, as in one day is as a thousand years with God).'

    Brenda, 'God and His Son Jesus making sinful man kind in the spiritual image of God'.

    Can you see, you believe in two god-people, 'God and His Son', and those two making SINFUL mankind in the image of God.
    In which God? Is it God? Or His Son? Or in both?

    Brenda, God's image is not the church, it is Himself (Jesus) and (Adam).
    Remember, it was made in the beginning and not six thousand years later, and Jesus came four thousand years after Adam.
    So then, the body of Christ, His Church was formed in His image at the beginning on the sixth 24 hr. day.
    Jesus is called the second Adam and He is the head of the first Adam His Church (Gen. 5:3-32), and to this very day of all who are born again.

    (Gen.1:27). 'man' there is not plural but singular. 'Man' became plural after the fall.
    You said,
    'Paul if you say 'I am talking about Adam and not of his descendants. His descendants were born spirituality dead because of his sin, But Adam was created in the image of the Lord Jesus by the Lord Jesus, and Jesus has the Spirit of God in him just like Adam had, before he sinned.'

    'then why, when Adam sinned by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Genesis ch. 3 v. 22), would God say "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take from the tree also of life, and live forever."

    (Gen.3:22) is after Adam sinned and has died the (spirit) and not the body.
    Adam was like Jesus before he sinned, and after the sin Adam was polluted by the image of the serpent (the beast). Remember two image, the image of God is Adam and the second image is the serpent the beast, the fallen Adam, as in mankind who has now two images.
    For that reason I think that the Lord Jesus stated, 'Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil', meaning the serpent.
    In other words, the perfect Adam (man) has become like the serpent (man) (mingled man and beast) just as Cain and all of us, knowing good and evil. (serpent man 'Cain'=evil, Adam=good).
    Remember, they (metaphorically) 'EAT' from the tree, meaning that Eve polluted the flesh and the image of man, so that man now has two images, man and beast, a polluted looks (image) and a polluted flesh, unlike original Adam.
    "Behold the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil."

    Brenda, it is impossible that this statement would suggest that Adam has become like one of Us, (plural Gods) God and His Son Jesus, as you have said, since the Lord our God is ONE and not two.

    ReplyDelete
  9. By the way, "And now, lest he put out his hand and take from the tree also of life, and eat, and live forever."

    That is a clear proof of predestination, that a man can not save himself by his will or choice, or his doing, but that it is a free gift of God by grace alone. It is the Lord alone who will give life (spiritual) only to His children, lest anyone will boast.

    Thomas and Brenda, I hope you had a Merry Christmas and also a good start in the New Year 2015.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Paul where you say 'that God is (in) Jesus, reconciling the world to Himself.', it actually uses the word 'was' not 'is' referring to the fact that God (Who is Spirit) John ch. 4 v. 24 was in Jesus (Who was the word made flesh) as stated in John ch. 1 v. 14 'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth'

    I agree with you that 'a man can not save himself by his will or choice, or his doing, but that it is a free gift of God by grace alone', as it is stated in John ch. 14 v. 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.,

    and John ch. 6 vs. 44 - 46 states:- 'No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God. Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.'

    Yes Paul, Jesus came four thousand years after the first Adam, and the sun and moon were created by God on the fourth day. In Psalm 19 v. 5 the sun is likened to a bridegroom:- 'Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,'. Jesus is likened to the bridegroom and the church likened to the bride as in 'Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;'

    The moon is classed as a faithful witness, which is what we the church are, and the natural moon can only reflect the light of the natural sun, just as the church can only reflect the light of Jesus. Jesus, the groom, ( likened to the sun which came on the fourth day) was not the same light that God spoke into being on the first day.

    Where God said 'Let us make man (plural) in Our image, that was on the sixth day.

    Jesus said 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.’ in Luke ch. 13 v. 32.
    If we discern this spiritually and count the today and tomorrow as two thousand years, then He ( as in the second Adam with Jesus as the head and the (gradually growing over the last two thousand years) church as the body, then it makes perfect sense.

    The church, the body of the second Adam (the life giving Spirit, Jesus) has been forming over the last two thousand years, and we are in the end times Paul, nearly into God's day of rest on the seventh day, when He will have ended His work.

    The carnal mind can not accept this but the spiritual mind can.' But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.' ( 1 Corinthians ch. 2 v. 14.).

    The simplicity in Christ is found in the word of God being discerned spiritually Paul, not in any doctrine that contains very few scriptures.

    My Christmas was fairly quiet Paul, as I find Christmas these days is much about Santa, which I believe is Satan (if you turn the letters around) in disguise.

    I believe this verse "And now, lest he put out his hand and take from the tree also of life, and eat, and live forever.", simply means that disobedient man could not be allowed to have eternal life. We had to be brought to Jesus to learn God's ways, and once we start to learn God's ways who could love Him and not want to become His child.
    You too have a very 'blessed in Jesus' new year Paul, and Thomas also.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Sorry Paul, in my last sentence I should have written. 'who could not love Him and not want to become His child'. However, 'who could love Him and not want to become His child' also makes sense.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Paul, the Hebrew word used in Genesis ch. 1 v. 27, adam, is collective, referring to mankind.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Brenda, about Christ Mass and the Santa Claus, I feel the same as you.
    It seems that the whole world has gone crazy about that Santa (Satan).
    Even Christians lie to their children about Santa and put up a decorated tree, perhaps to his honor.
    If that is not worship, then what is?
    I wish they would they would magnify Jesus Christ rather than Santa (Satan) :-(

    OK, it makes no difference whether God 'was', or 'is' in Jesus Christ. The fact is that Jesus Christ 'IS' the only God there is and beside Jesus Christ is no other! not even 'Santa' :-o

    Doctrine means teaching. A teaching is either true, false or incomplete.
    A true teaching is intellectually and logically sound.
    Any quotations from any book, even the Bible or any other thought, or line of thinking contrary to the above statement in NOT true.

    A false teaching is not intellectually and logically sound and it can never be true, no matter how many Bible verses we may quote, it always will be in error and false.
    NO spirituality, or spirit, or office, or authority, or whatever else can nullify the above statement.

    Example;
    The doctrine of God.
    The Lord Jesus said, "Hear O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord;" (Mark 12:29).
    If God is ONE, it follows, He then can NOT be TWO, at any time.
    If you portray and explain (which amounts to teaching) God to be two, then your doctrine is not true.
    If you teach that there is one God who is two or three persons or identities, your doctrine is not true, regardless what Scriptures you quote.
    If you teach that 'God and His Son Jesus made sinful mankind in the spiritual image of God', then your doctrine is not true, regardless whether you quote a hundred Scriptures or not.
    (John 6:44-46 + 37 etc.), if you teach that no one comes to the true God, unless they go through another person called Jesus, then your teaching is not true.

    Jesus said, that He is the truth, and not someone else called 'Father'.
    Jesus said, that He is the Father, and not another identity called God.
    So then, when you quote (John 6:44-46 + 37 etc.), you suppose to teach that as a metaphor, meaning that there is NO OTHER way to come to God, but to Jesus and He is the only way.
    Whoever has come to Jesus, is already with the only God there is, there is no need to look any further, there is no other way, truth or life, but Jesus alone, He is the Alpha and the Omega.

    You see, if you don't believe that, then you wouldn't believe or accept any Scriptures I would quote to you.
    Using illogical reasoning will always lead you into error; like thinking, that the Lord Jesus can do or say nothing on His own unless another person or God (called Father) tells Him what to do or say (John 4:34, + 5:19-24 + 6:38 and many more).

    Look Brenda, if the natural man and the natural mind can understand what I say, but how much more should those who claim to be born again (spiritual man) with a spiritual mind (the mind of Christ) understand and BELIEVE that?
    I say it again, not only understand, but more so BELIEVE!
    The Lord Jesus requires from us 'that we believe'.

    Luke 13:32 is speaking about the death and resurrection of Jesus, for a prophet cannot die outside Jerusalem.
    To read the 'thousand year interpretation' into it, will have some problems.

    Because the Lord made the FIRST man (male) Adam in (Gen.1:27) in His image, therefore I think it refers to the first man Adam alone (singular). Second halve of the verse, Eve included, could be mankind.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Paul,
    how many times do I have to say that I believe in the One God, the 'us' is the Spirit (God) and the Word which became flesh (Jesus) in order for us to receive that Spirit.
    I do not say this in an argumentative way, but in truth according to the scriptures. A person can quote the scriptures, and there are many people that probably know the Bible inside out but that means nothing without the Spirit. It is a history book without the Spirit to bring it to life and instruct. Just the same as a fleshly body is not alive without a carnal spirit within it to instruct it, so I would not be alive in Christ without the Spirit of God to instruct me.
    As Jesus was born of that same Spirit of God:- 'Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.' Matthew ch. 1 v. 18, so we too have to be born of that Spirit, and there is a process in doing it.

    Where you say 'You see, if you don't believe that, then you wouldn't believe or accept any Scriptures I would quote to you. ', It is that Spirit that is my teacher Paul, and should be yours.
    We can share testimonies and encourage one another with those testimonies, but we are all instructed, taught and grow through that Word being active in our lives.
    I love sharing God's love and presence in my life and enjoy hearing other people's testimonies, but 'believing' in Jesus is simply 'believing that Word spoken to me as I continue my journey to the 'promised land', and acting on it. It is not just believing that Jesus came two thousand years ago, it is a living word.

    'Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.'
    and Jesus is our High Priest:-
    'Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. 'Hebrews ch. 4 vs. 14-16

    Where you say:- 'Jesus said, that He is the truth,' I agree with that, for the only way the truth can be revealed to us (as fleshly human beings ) is with the spoken or written Word of God, which Jesus is..

    Where you say:-'Because the Lord made the FIRST man (male) Adam in (Gen.1:27) in His image, therefore I think it refers to the first man Adam alone (singular). Second halve of the verse, Eve included, could be mankind.'
    all I can say Paul is that we are each entitled to what we 'think', and I have many times shared with you my thoughts on this.

    Where you say:- ' if you teach that no one comes to the true God, unless they go through another person called Jesus, then your teaching is not true'
    I do not teach this, Jesus teaches this in the scriptures. although the word 'Father' is used for God I do not teach anyone Paul.





    ReplyDelete
  15. Brenda, you don't need to tell me that you believe in One God, everybody says that they believe in One God, but what you need to tell me, and not only to me, but to the whole world; Who is that 'God' you believe in?
    Brenda, we have been at the same position one year ago, and we have not progressed one bit.

    Bother Thomas is clear in his position. In both, this and his last post and comments he states that the Lord Jesus Christ is not the Lord God the Almighty, with the support of numerous valid Scripture verses, without actually telling me who God is.

    I have the same problem with you as I have with Thomas.
    If the Lord Jesus is NOT the 'God' of the Bible, then WHO IS?
    Does the Lord Jesus share His God-hood (Deity) with another person called 'Father'?
    Well, that's a legitimate question and it will not go away.
    If the Lord Jesus would ask you that question; how would you answer Him?
    Quoting Him Scriptures?

    Concerning Scriptures Brenda, we are very similar in outlook, and many times I could give you an 'AMEN', but the Lord Jesus has commissioned me to address the biggest problem which has polluted the so called Christian world.
    They all have Bibles in their hands, but hardly anyone believes that Jesus Christ is the Lord God the Almighty alone.
    And neither do they believe that Jesus Christ is their Father who is in heaven.
    The alarm and the trumpet has sounded, therefore listen!

    Why do they call themselves 'Christians', if they don't believe in Jesus and His Word?
    They all have become skillful to avoiding the simple and plain questions of the Lord, especially the scholars, Pastors, Bishops, Reverends and all high-flyers.
    Therefore the Lord has given them eyes to see not and ears to hear not and with their hearts they hardly believe.

    But that should not be so with us. We ought to give everyone who asks reasonable answer for the hope that is in us, and that hope is Christ Jesus our Lord, and yes, it has to be 'reasonable', meaning 'with reason'.
    I know that you are an outstanding spiritual woman and sensitive to the Spirit of the Lord, perhaps for that reason we have such a long debate concerning the doctrine of God, and I think that in the long run the Word of the Lord will not return void, but accomplish what it is designed for.
    But remember, quoting Scriptures doesn't answer my questions.
    Continued on next comment.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Scriptures are not doctrines, doctrines are that which you believe, teach and preach. So then, I address the foundation of your doctrines.

    Brenda, if you really would believe that there is only ONE God who is your Father in heaven, then you would tell me WHO? His Name?

    The problem we have is, that you don't believe that Jesus Christ is your Father who is in heaven, therefore it makes it impossible for you to correct anyone who doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, ( the Lord God the Almighty alone).
    Thomas believes that the Father (whoever he might be) is the only God there is, and Jesus is His son. Two separate persons, only one is God, and that is the Father and Jesus is not God, but a man, a son.

    You Brenda believe that Jesus is God, and the Father is also God, perhaps two identities together make up one God, some kind of a mystical union between the Father and the Son.

    In contrast I believe that the Lord Jesus is the only God and He is our Father who is in heaven. In other words, it is Jesus who is the Holy Spirit and clothed Himself in flesh.

    There are only those three basic views concerning God, and it is of great importance that all of us; me, you Brenda and also Thomas adjust our belief to the truth, the true God and the true doctrine of God.
    Because all three views greatly differ, therefore only one view is the truth and we have to make sure that we believe the truth and not a lie, and there is no middle-ground, either we believe in the Lord 'Jesus Christ' alone, or in another god called the 'Father', or we believe that both are a 'GOD'.
    Which one is it going to be?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Paul, His name is I AM THAT I AM.
    He has made Jesus our Lord and Messiah (Acts ch. 2 v. 36)

    I suspect that maybe you are not born again of God's Holy Spirit. Romans ch. 8 speaks fully of this. If a person is not born again, then he or she is trying to understand things with the carnal mind, and the things of God are spiritually discerned and are foolishness to the carnal mind.

    1 Corinthians ch. 2 v. 13 states 'And we speak about these things, not with words taught us by human wisdom, but with those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.'

    ReplyDelete
  18. Paul, I am in full agreement with Brenda. The scriptures are clear, as is the guiding of God's Holy Spirit.
    His name is I AM THAT I AM, and He did create Jesus Christ, our Lord and Messiah.
    Jesus has a God, and he is sitting at His right hand right now....

    ReplyDelete
  19. Amen Thomas,
    'For there is one God and one intermediary between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human, who gave himself as a ransom for all, revealing God’s purpose at his appointed time.'

    We are a new creation in Christ Jesus.

    ReplyDelete
  20. No Brenda, absolutely NOT!
    I AM THAT I AM is not a name and you need to agree with the sound wisdom of the Lord.
    I have been saying and explaining that many times before.

    Thomas, In the Old Testament no one knew God's Name, because His Name was not given till the New Testament when God was born into His own creation (Luke 1:31).
    Your view is different to Brenda's; you don't believe that Jesus is God, but Brenda does.

    ((Acts 2:36) is saying to all those who don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord God the Almighty; 'let it be known to you that this 'JESUS' which I and all those in the Bible and all other believers after testify, that this God (Jesus Christ) has declared Himself to be the Lord God the Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and that beside Him is NO OTHER.'

    Brenda, you need to believe in Jesus and not in another.
    God did NOT make Jesus our Lord as you say.
    Jesus was Lord at His birth, and only if you believe in Him, He is your Lord, if you don't believe in Him, He is not your 'LORD'.
    If you believe that another one called 'God or Father or I AM' is your God, then obviously Jesus is NOT your Lord.

    The Lord Jesus does not need lip-service, but He seeks those who truly believe in Him.
    If you believe in Jesus, then you have to cut off any other god who raises its head against the true God Jesus Christ our Lord (1 John 5:20).
    Only the born again spiritual mind can accept and believe what I have said above, and the carnal mind cannot and does not accept those things, but rather it hides itself behind nonsensical teachings and irrational reasoning with a disguise of spirituality.

    Look Brenda, we have to make sure that we travel on the narrow road and not on the broad road.
    Jesus made it clear that He is that narrow road, anybody who believes ONLY in Him shall not be disappointed.
    The road is so simple, 'ONLY JESUS CHRIST'! He is for everyone who is willing to believe, and remember He is abundant in loving kindness towards us, while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
    The moment we depart from Jesus Christ, or add another god to Him, then we have transgressed the first and foremost of all the commandments and we will not go unpunished.
    That is the problem of most churches today, and for that reason they have become lukewarm or dead.

    It troubles me that you don't know His Name, and the reason for that is, that you don't really believe that Jesus is the only one God.
    You need to work on that so that you can be an Ambassador for Jesus Christ just like me, and I also invite Thomas to join us in that great mission for Christ's sake.
    Remember, many are called, but few are chosen.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Paul, which version of the Bible do you have?

    Where you say ' ((Acts 2:36) is saying to all those who don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord God the Almighty; 'let it be known to you that this 'JESUS' which I and all those in the Bible and all other believers after testify, that this God (Jesus Christ) has declared Himself to be the Lord God the Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and that beside Him is NO OTHER.'

    It does not go together with what Acts ch. 2 v. 36 actually says, as in:- 'Therefore let all the house of Israel know beyond a doubt that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified both Lord and Christ.”

    Jesus was Lord at birth because God had made Him our Lord. 'Christ' means 'anointed' or 'chosen one', in which case another would have to do the anointing or the choosing.

    Acts ch. 10 vs. 34 - 38 verifies that God was the One who anointed Jesus (whom God made our Lord) with the Holy Spirit and with power.:-

    ' Then Peter started speaking: “I now truly understand that God does not show favouritism in dealing with people, but in every nation the person who fears Him and does what is right is welcomed before Him. You know the message He sent to the people of Israel, proclaiming the good news of peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)— you know what happened throughout Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John announced: with respect to Jesus from Nazareth, that God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

    As far as 'many are called, but few are chosen ' is concerned Paul, this is referring to the wedding feast parable and whether the guest has the right robe on.

    Isaiah ch. 61 v. 10 states 'I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for He hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decked himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorned herself with her jewels'.

    The robe that I must have on is the 'garment of salvation', the robe of Jesus' righteousness, not my own righteousness.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Brenda, we are talking about your teaching and belief.
    We both are old enough to read what Acts 2:36 says. I have been interpreting it, so that it makes sense to everyone.

    Again, WHO made Jesus Lord at His birth?
    And who is that, who has that kind of power to make Jesus Lord?
    Are you saying that this UNKNOWABLE God made the Lord Jesus 'LORD'?
    Tell me who has chosen and anointed Jesus Christ?
    'Lord' means, GOD! The God of all creation.

    Brenda, If some kind of a God has chosen and anointed and made Jesus Lord, then the Lord Jesus would not and could not be the only true God of all creation.
    It is as simple as that.
    Surely you must be able to see that?
    I think that you just don't understand the Scriptures you are quoting.

    Look Brenda, you need to be clear in your position, either you take the position of Thomas, who clearly stated that Jesus is NOT the Lord God the Almighty, or my position, that the Lord Jesus IS the Lord God the Almighty alone.
    You are in the middle and say that the Lord Jesus IS a God with another person called 'God, or Father', ( two identities and both are God).
    That is bizarre Brenda, and you need to rid yourself of this other god, whom you call 'God or Father.
    It is your duty in Christ that you give ALL the glory to Jesus Christ ALONE, and not to another.

    Jesus Christ is only glorified, if you give the title 'God ' to Jesus alone and also give the title 'Father' to the Lord Jesus Christ.
    If you promote any other one, then you demote the Lord Jesus to a mere man, and exalt another in His place. That would be 'Antichrist', and you have to make sure that you don't do that.
    You need to make a decision, that from now on you will give all the glory to the Lord Jesus Christ alone and preach Him alone.
    If any other identity raises it's head against the Lord Jesus Christ, cut him off, it's the devil! Don't give him any room to have a place in your teaching and in your soul.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Paul, you keep asking the same kind of questions:-
    'Again, WHO made Jesus Lord at His birth?
    And who is that, who has that kind of power to make Jesus Lord?
    Are you saying that this UNKNOWABLE God made the Lord Jesus 'LORD'?
    Tell me who has chosen and anointed Jesus Christ?'
    and I keep answering you from the scriptures, yet you do not answer me when I ask you questions, as in 'which Bible do you use?'
    That God WOULD BE UNKNOWABLE if it wasn't for Jesus' sacrifice opening the door to reconciliation with Him.

    My father always used to say 'Let's see what the Lord says', and would seek the answers from the scriptures, and I follow his advice.
    2 Timothy ch. 3 v. 16 says that ' All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,' so surely everyone should use those scriptures as their plumb line.

    Jesus is the express image of God, and that means in Spirit, not in physical, form.

    Even after Jesus had risen from the dead He spoke of 'His Father':- 'And look, I am sending you what my Father promised. But stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high' (Luke ch. 24 v. 49).

    The apostle Peter also refers to God and Jesus:-
    ' Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man clearly attested to you by God with powerful deeds, wonders, and miraculous signs that God performed among you through him, just as you yourselves know— this man, who was handed over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you executed by nailing him to a cross at the hands of Gentiles. But God raised him up, having released him from the pains of death, because it was not possible for him to be held in its power.' (Acts ch. 2 vs. 22 - 24 ).

    The scriptures are so clear that I have to question why you do not see these things for yourself. However, you did say that you were going by what your friend had said, not the Bible.

    There is nothing in this world that would cause me to follow the doctrine of your friend instead of the doctrine of Christ Paul.
    Jesus is like the sun which is likened to the bridegroom (Psalm 19 v. 5), He is the light of this world, and we, the church, are like the moon which only reflects the light of that sun, the light of Jesus Christ our Lord - no other.
    In Jesus we have peace and truth.

    I do preach Christ crucified Paul, and salvation through no one else, and I believe I do what I am called to do with my sister in the Lord. We love doing it and have a wonderful response, and only the Holy Spirit instructing me to do otherwise would change that.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Yes Brenda, I'm asking you the same kind of questions, and you are quoting me the same kind of metaphors from the Scriptures without answering my questions in plain language. If you can't understand Scriptural metaphors you will not be able to answer my plain questions with plain answers.
    You don't need to quote the Scriptures, I read the same Bible as you do, quoting a Scriptures doesn't answer my questions.
    I don't make things difficult for you, but simple.
    So please don't quote me metaphors, where Jesus said 'My Father is greater than I (John 14:28).' Or, Jesus said, 'I can do only what I see my Father is doing, (John 5:19).' Or, where Jesus said, 'to My Father and your Father, My God and your God (John 20:17).' And there are many more metaphors.
    You need to tell me what it means, not what it says.
    If you don't know the truth, and understand the truth, then you will not be able to understand those metaphors.

    Brenda, to be a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ you can NOT believe in a 'God' AND in Jesus Christ, neither can you believe that the Lord Jesus has a Father, and neither can you believe that the Lord Jesus has a God.
    You can NOT pray to God through a sub-god called Jesus, and neither can you go to 'God' through a sub-god called Jesus.
    As a believer in Jesus Christ, you can NOT believe what you want to believe, or what it suits you to believe, but the Lord requires from that you believe in Him and His Word, the Scriptures and also what the Spirit says.
    It is important to know that the Spirit does NOT override the Scriptures, otherwise it is a deceiving spirit.
    Example; Isaiah 9:6 says that the Lord Jesus Christ is called the everlasting FATHER.
    So, any deceiving spirit will say that Jesus Christ is NOT the Father, but another identity called God is the Father, that is the deceiving spirit and the Antichrist.
    Antichrist in that; that it removes the Lord Jesus from center stage and puts another in His place.
    Now, if you say or indicate that Jesus is NOT the Father, then you believe in a deceiving spirit and not the Scriptures.

    Continued on next comment.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Concerning the express image of God.
    You said, "Jesus is the express image of God, and that means in Spirit, not in physical, form."

    Is that the answer from the Scriptures?
    The first question you have to ask yourself, is the Lord Jesus the express image of another identity called God?
    If YES, then who is that God?
    If NO, then the Spirit of the Lord will tell you that the Lord Jesus is the Lord God the Almighty, and He is the express image of Himself in PHYSICAL form, Spirit, Soul and Body (Flesh), and not as you have said.

    Hebrews chapter 1 is in a metaphorical language to convey to the readers or hearers that this man or son of man Jesus Christ is the Lord God Almighty, who came, or was born into His own creation and was in appearance just like one of us in the image of God.

    Remember, it is GOD who appeared in a BODY (1 Tim. 3:16), He didn't sent someone else, a so called Son.
    Before you quote Hebrews chapter 1 verse 3, first identify the 'God' in verse 1, the first word 'GOD'.
    If that 'GOD' is not the Lord Jesus who is speaking about Himself in metaphorical language, then tell me, WHO is that GOD ??

    Yes Brenda, I know that you preach Christ crucified, but what I'm asking is, WHO sent Jesus Christ to be crucified?
    Please give me a plain and simple answer, who is it (by Name)?
    No, don't quote Scripture statements to me, just a Name, and no titles or descriptions, just a Name.

    I consider you to be a wise woman, therefore you know exactly what Name I am looking for, not only I but also the Lord.
    If you can't say it, or don't want to say it, then you have to question yourself about that.
    Otherwise I continually will question you till I hear that you believe ONLY in Jesus Christ our Lord and God, and not in another.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Brenda, You said, "However, you did say that you were going by what your friend had said, and not the Bible."

    I have never said that I am going by what my friend had said and not the Bible.

    You must have confused me with someone else.
    I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ alone and in NO man.
    Let God be true and every man be a liar, as it is written. (Rom. 3:4).

    I speak by the Spirit of the Lord Jesus, and the words of the Lord, also found in the Bible.
    I represent the Lord Jesus Christ alone and no one else, and certainly not man or my friends.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Paul, Jesus knew and obeyed "The Only True God". You can not have everlasting life without knowing who Jesus was talking about. Brenda and I have both showed you numerous times who "The Only True God" is.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Paul, I was referring to your friend, Carey I believe his name is, who you said believes the 'our' in 'Let us make man in our image' is referring to God and the devil. You said you believed what he believed here.
    I do not believe that everything that Jesus spoke was a metaphor, His words are quite clear, and it is only when I became born again did Jesus become present in my life. Before then He was historical to me. Only the Spiritual mind can understand how this can be. So much could be discussed here but I believe that if we seek we shall find, if we ask it shall be given. We all grow gradually in the Spirit.

    ReplyDelete
  29. No brother Thomas, you and Brenda have shown me not once who the true God is.
    This is the question which I have been asking you and Brenda numerous times.
    If Jesus is NOT the true God, then WHO is that TRUE God?

    The Holy Spirit teaches you that JESUS Christ is the ONLY TRUE GOD and beside Him is NO OTHER who is also a God.

    It is the Lord Jesus who is the Holy Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17) who teaches us that He has no Father or mother or genealogy (Hebr. 7:3) and that He and the Father are ONE and not TWO (John 10:30), and that He is the TRUE GOD and eternal life (1 John 5:20), and that He is the ONLY GOD our saviour (Jude 1:25), the great God and saviour (Tit. 2:10-13).
    Well brother, I can give you another hundred verses to confirm my testimony.

    My testimony is the same as the Prophet Isaiah, (Isa. 44:24) Thus says the Lord (Jesus Christ),your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, I the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by myself. (45:21-22) Who has long since declared it, Is it not I, the Lord (Jesus Christ)? And there is no other God beside Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. (43:10-12) You are My witnesses, declares the Lord (Jesus Christ), and My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He, before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. I, even I, am the Lord (Jesus Christ), and there is no savior beside Me. It is I who has declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses declares the Lord (Jesus), And I am God.

    The difference between Isaiah and Me, Isaiah did not know the Name of God, because it was not given in the Old Testament. But I know the Name of God and so should everyone who claim to believe in Him; His Name is JESUS! The Name above all Names.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Brenda, I do not represent another man's doctrines and what they believe and say. I think that every man ought to state his own doctrines and defend them, if questioned.
    If someone states a good doctrine, or a statement, I will give them an 'Amen', if not, I will give them a correction or a rebuke, if required.

    The meaning of the word 'OUR' in Genesis 1:26 is that which I teach and not someone else. I do not quote another man to support what I am saying, I quote the Bible by the Spirit of the Lord.

    Yes Brenda, that's right, not every word the Lord Jesus says is a metaphor. But it is your duty to distinguish which is and which is not.
    Everything which Jesus said about His Father is a metaphor, Yes Brenda, everything!
    Jesus made it clear in John 16:25 that He has spoken about His Father FIGURATIVELY, which is another word for metaphorically.
    But now He tells you PLAINLY! and you still don't believe, WHY ?

    I, also have been walking very closely with my Lord for 33 years and He has washed and pruned my doctrines so that only He remains.
    I have no other agenda that I'm aware off, apart from preaching Christ and Him crucified.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Paul,
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

    The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace ...

    'the One and only Son' is referring to Jesus who was born in the flesh. He was only called Jesus while He was on earth. Other than that He was know as the Word of God.

    God has made all things new, and Jesus was the first born from the dead, the first of many brethren, Son of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

    It makes perfect sense to the Spiritual mind.

    ReplyDelete
  32. I'm sorry for the late comment, I have been away for a few days.

    Brenda, if it doesn't make sense to the natural logical mind, it surely doesn't make sense to the spiritual mind.
    Truth is spiritual as much as it is natural rational logical, and the mind discerns the natural.
    When Jesus was was speaking to the natural man, they surely knew and understood what He was saying. They may not like it, but they surely understand it.

    Brenda, what you have said is just not good enough. All it is, is religious rhetoric and it means nothing to an inquiring soul.
    It is your duty to open up the Scriptures to anyone so that they can understand, obey and believe.
    They don't need religious jargon, we have far to much of that in our local churches and it has never produced many converts. They come in the front door and go out the back door, because it doesn't make sense to them.
    Your message needs to be clear, rational and simple, or it is useless.
    Your message ought to be Jesus Christ and nothing else.

    A good example is brother Thomas, at least he is clear in what he has said. He can see clearly by the Scriptures, that Jesus cannot be God and also another one called Father.
    Either Jesus is the Lord God or this other one called Father or 'God'. Both cannot be God.
    Make up your mind.
    I preach that Jesus is that Father and the only GOD.
    You said,
    "God has made all things new, and Jesus was the first born from the dead, the first of many brethren, Son of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."

    Why can't you say that Jesus made all things new? After all it is Jesus who created all things, and nothing came into being apart from Him.
    And it is Jesus who is the invisible God became visible and was born into His own creation etc.
    Brenda, you need to give all the glory to Jesus Christ and not to an invisible God, otherwise it doesn't make sense to the spiritual mind and to the natural mind.

    Knowledge and understanding is in the natural mind, wisdom and revelation is in the spiritual mind.
    We need both, so that we can give a reasonable answer to everyone who asks.

    How can I witness to a person who is not born again, if he has only a natural mind? Therefore I have to preach to his natural mind, and I need to make rational sense to him, and perhaps the Lord Jesus may give him a spiritual mind and he be born again.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Paul,
    I have left a comment on your blog saying that I can not add any more to what I have said to you. As long as a person does not go by scripture they will never be able to agree with a person who does go by scripture.

    As far as the scripture '"God has made all things new, and Jesus was the first born from the dead, the first of many brethren, Son of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." Yes God has made all things new. Jesus was the firstborn from the dead, the first of many brethren, Son of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. - two thousand years ago.


    Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.”

    ReplyDelete
  34. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete